PARIS: Philippe Aghion is a prominent French economist, internationally recognized for his work on growth and innovation. He is a professor at the College de France and the London School of Economics.
His research has profoundly revitalized Joseph Schumpeter’s theory of “creative destruction.” It demonstrates how innovation — stimulated by competition and guided by the government — is the true engine of modern economic growth. His major contributions were honored with the Nobel Prize in Economics. Arab News en Francais had the opportunity to meet with him in Paris.
In his view, France possesses the talent, technology and know-how; Saudi Arabia possesses the capital, investment capacity and industrial momentum; bringing them together could help to finance a new generation of innovations, particularly in AI, while serving as a catalyst for French economic and institutional reforms. Cooperation between the two countries could thus build on this complementarity between capital, skills and technologies.
Can Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries achieve “leapfrogging”?
Yes. Saudi Arabia has a major advantage; its financial resources and industrial experience can help accelerate innovation. France, for its part, possesses the necessary scientific and technological expertise.
What are France’s strengths in this cooperation?
France has an excellent pool of talent, particularly in mathematics, computer science and engineering. It also possesses recognized expertise in aerospace, defense, nuclear energy, rail, luxury goods and certain artificial intelligence technologies, particularly in image recognition.
What is France’s main weakness?
The budgetary situation and the level of debt severely limit France’s investment capacity, particularly in disruptive innovations. Rising interest rates further exacerbate this constraint.
What can France and Saudi Arabia offer each other?
The phrase that sums up this complementarity is simple: “Saudi Arabia has the funds; France has the know-how.” But Riyadh also brings its industrial and oil sector expertise to the table. The goal, therefore, is to create a true joint force.
Why is AI a priority area?
Artificial intelligence has considerable growth potential, since it can automate the production of goods, services, and even ideas. But its development requires data and, above all, enormous computing power, which is particularly costly. This is precisely an area in which the two countries could cooperate.
Can France develop a European AI capable of competing with the US and China?
Yes, and this is considered important. The goal would be for France to be at the heart of a European initiative comparable to the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, possibly with the participation of other European countries and Saudi funding.
Why would cooperation with Saudi Arabia be crucial for AI?
Because France’s main obstacle is a lack of funding. Saudi Arabia could provide the necessary capital, while France would contribute its researchers, engineers, talent and technologies.
What vision of AI should France champion?
France should promote a more ethical AI that is more respectful of individuals, property rights, freedoms and democracy. According to the interviewee, there is a global market for artificial intelligence that aligns with these values.
Can France and Saudi Arabia build this “trustworthy AI” together?
Yes. It would be a win-win scenario: France would contribute the expertise and values, while Saudi Arabia would provide the funding and certain industrial capabilities. This AI could be of particular interest to countries in the Global South.
Does Franco-Saudi cooperation extend beyond purely economic interests?
Yes. The two countries can also cooperate on institutional, cultural and geopolitical issues. Despite their cultural differences, they share, according to the interviewee, certain interests and values.
In brief — the role of Saudi funding
Saudi investments should not be limited to injecting capital into the existing French system. On the contrary, they could support and accelerate structural reforms in education, universities, the government, industrial policy, venture capital and governance, to sustainably strengthen France’s capacity for innovation, Aghion believes.
He adds that the partnership must be viewed as a reciprocal relationship. It is not simply a matter of France seeking Saudi funding. On the contrary, the two countries could help each other strengthen their technologies, institutions and capacity for innovation.
What role can France play in Saudi Arabia beyond investments?
In particular, France could train Saudi students at its top schools, transfer technology and share its expertise in fields such as mathematics, engineering, computer science and transportation.
What can Saudi Arabia offer in return?
It can provide funding, its industrial experience, its expertise in certain sectors and its digital dynamism. The goal is to put these resources to work for joint projects.
Can cooperation with Saudi Arabia help France reform?
Yes. According to the interviewee, this is in fact one of the main benefits of the partnership. Investments should not simply be used to finance the existing French system; they must be accompanied by structural reforms.
Why must investments be linked to reforms?
Because injecting money without changing the underlying structures would be ineffective. The interviewee specifically cites education and universities; increased funding should go hand-in-hand with greater autonomy and better governance.
Should France adopt a policy that is more business- and market-friendly?
Yes. The interviewee believes it is necessary to reform the French economy and adopt an approach that is more favorable to businesses, investment and the market.
Can the partnership with Saudi Arabia facilitate these reforms politically?
Yes. This is a central idea of the interview. The French people should be offered a “dream” or a positive vision that gives meaning to the sacrifices associated with the reforms. A major Franco-Saudi project could thus make these transformations more acceptable.
In brief — entrepreneurship in France
Several obstacles are currently hindering innovation and entrepreneurship; the burden of debt, excessive bureaucracy, a lack of long-term financing, insufficient venture capital and a culture that still does not tolerate failure enough. To foster disruptive innovations, France should therefore create an environment more conducive to risk-taking, investment and entrepreneurship.
What is the problem with entrepreneurship in France?
There is too much bureaucracy and a culture that does not tolerate failure enough. However, to produce disruptive innovations, one must be willing to take risks and therefore sometimes fail.
How can we foster a culture of innovation and failure?
We need to develop venture capital, long-term research funding and the role of institutional investors. More abundant funding would allow entrepreneurs and researchers to take greater risks.
Why is there so much bureaucracy in France?
The interviewee believes there are too many civil servants in certain government agencies and that they tend to create ever-more regulations and procedures. He therefore recommends reducing bureaucracy and retraining some of the staff.
In brief — AI in France
In France, artificial intelligence is the central strategic initiative. The ambition is to build — ideally with France at the center — a European AI capability capable of competing with the US and China. This strategy would aim not only at technological performance but also at developing ethical AI that respects freedoms, individual rights and democratic values, says Philippe Aghion.
Can AI help reduce bureaucracy?
Yes. Artificial intelligence could automate certain administrative tasks and help transform the organization of the state.
What can France and Saudi Arabia learn from each other on an institutional level?
Cooperation must be bilateral. France can assist Saudi Arabia in certain technological and institutional areas, while Saudi Arabia can help France reduce its bureaucracy and become more entrepreneurial.
In which institutional areas could Saudi Arabia improve?
The interviewee specifically cites the protection of property rights, the fight against corruption, and improving the quality of institutions.
What, ultimately, is the key to prosperity?
Prosperity depends on a combination of technology and sound institutions. Technology alone is not enough; effective governance, strong institutions and sound investment management are also necessary.
What role could France play in strengthening ties with Saudi Arabia?
France can play an important role thanks to its technological, scientific, educational and institutional expertise, as well as its “soft power” and its historical standing in the Middle East.
What is the geopolitical vision outlined regarding Israel and the Palestinians?
The interviewee affirms his support for the two-state solution and believes that France and Saudi Arabia share this position. He also expresses hope for political change in Israel.
At the end of the interview, Philippe Aghion emphasizes his desire to see this cooperation come to fruition. He notes that he has already been invited to Saudi Arabia and hopes to organize a visit, including targeted meetings aimed at turning the ideas discussed into concrete projects.
